Friday, October 15, 2010

Response from Sydney Writers' Centre 15/10/10

Hi Gemma,

Thanks for your feedback. We agree that this is a contentious issue and appreciate you taking the time to email us. We debated it at length in the office and realise that we could have explained it better with a different example. We should have explained further that leaving the apostrophe out has also become acceptable in some cases due to issues of style. If you go back to the ground rules of grammar, it should be: Men's room, Women's Room. However, even noted grammarians have conceded that this has evolved:

In The Little Green Grammar Book, Mark Tredinnick says:
You can get away, by the way, without an apostrophe in some of these where they’re working, often in titles, as descriptive, not owning, possessives:
Mens room, Childrens orchestra, Womens Hospital, Fathers Day.

Acclaimed Grammar Girl, Mignon Fogarty says:
When the phrase includes a plural, as with writers strike, it can be a tougher call. I believe it's pretty clear that the writers don't own the strike, and that the word writers is there to tell us more about what kind of strike it is. So I'd leave out the apostrophe. On the other hand, I'd include the apostrophe in homeowners' association, at least when the homeowners actually own or control the association that manages their property.

Here's an even trickier one: farmers market. The market is used by the farmers, populated by the farmers, but generally not owned by the farmers. So it seems reasonable to conclude that you don't use an apostrophe because the word farmers is there to identify the type of market. It's an adjective.
For full explanation go to http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/grammar-apostrophes.aspx

Interestingly, Mark Tredinnick is the only one who used ‘Mens Room’ as an example. Although note that Mark is considered an expert is this area, showing that it's certainly an issue for debate. I’ve checked with our own grammar guru, Deb Doyle, and she agrees that this is wrong. The bottom line is that we should not have used "Mens room" and "Womens room" as an example. So apologies if we confused the issue further!

We’ll clarify in next week’s tip. Thanks again for taking the time to email.

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